S3. Chapter 20. Interview with Vicki O' Callaghan, Co-owner of BabyBoo

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 Hey, welcome to Another Chapter podcast with your hosts Claire and Rebecca. Hey, welcome to season three, chapter 20 of another chapter of the podcast. And this week I and Vicky O'Callahan, who is co-owner of, Offered Friendly Bible. It is an award winning Irish e-commerce business. They created Baby Boo after they struggled to find quality clothing for their children who are suffering with eczema and reflux. They know design and manufacture a full range of baby and children's products, including including their iconic dribble, boo bib and many other other products. The inspiration and vision behind Baby Boo was to create a brand unlike any other, with unique, functional and sustainable products to make life more comfortable for their little customers. With his own background is in digital marketing and sales, and she worked for 20 years in the publishing industry before taking the jump to being self-employed. She is mom to Ruby, 11, cat mittens and dog Juneau and she has always been a bookworm. So massive welcome, Vicki. Is there anything else we missed? Anything we should add? It's pretty much everything in a nutshell. So I suppose, Vicki, to start off, why did you feel so passionately about creating a sustainable clothing brand? Well, I suppose the whole sustainability piece kind of started a few years into the business, like we're 11 years in business this year. So initially the key thing was the cotton and the quality of the cotton and where we were manufacturing it, which is why we chose Turkey because, um, turkey, the cotton has grown in such a way that the, the fibers are longer. So it's, it's very similar to Egyptian cotton. So it has much better silk basically than, say, your cotton that people are buying in from India or China or other locations. So that was why we picked Turkey as the place to manufacture. And then I suppose, as I say, a few years into the business. Organic cotton had become such a huge part of the whole textile industry, it just made sense to switch to organic. The other side of it was there were a lot of other businesses had come into the market, and we're doing very similar to what we were doing, and we needed to differentiate ourselves. And we could even either go up and, you know, increase the quality and increase the, I suppose, the level of the brand. Or we could go the other way and go more value and reduce the quality so that it will be cheaper to buy in, but we sell more and all the rest of it. We chose to go up and increase the quality and I think it was the right decision. I don't think it would have sat well with either of us ethically to go any other way. Um, so yeah, I suppose it's a combination of the organic cotton is obviously better. Um, we're a baby business, so we want to be doing the best and for the environment and the planet and everything else, you know, it just makes more sense to be more sustainable. So it isn't really just about the organic cotton. We do loads of different, um, sustainability initiatives in the business. Um, small things like recycling our tea bags to, uh, our Nespresso pods are recycled. Um, with that, we bought invested in a machine about four years ago. Now, I'd say, so that we could stop using bubble wrap. So we perforate all our cardboard, all our boxes, everything that comes in. So we don't use bubble wrap anymore in the business. So that's obviously reducing our plastic intake. And we have compostable mailing bags. We, you know, so it's it's I suppose there's probably something every year that we try and change or that we focus on. Um, so yeah, that's I suppose that's why the sustainability piece. Yeah. And it's very important I. Something that I love about your website is that whenever I go to order, where's it. It'll take the box for like that. You don't want extra packaging and extra wrapping in it. And I think that's a really nice touch because it's lovely if you're buying a gift for somebody, but more than often you're buying them for your own kids and you don't need all the extra fancy. And it's, you know what? It's better for everybody. So you get your order faster because it's faster for us to pack it. If we're not wrapping it and doing all the fancy bits. You know, I always think of, um, you know, that film. Oh, God, what's the film? Where? It's the Christmas film. Where his packet wrapping there in the department store, and he's wrapping the gift, and all the extra bits are adding up and adding, oh, yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I always think of that. And I'm like, Jesus, if we didn't need to be doing all of this, how much faster it would be. The company has evolved so much since day one. Like, could you possibly have imagined starting out that you would be where you are now with this? Yeah, we did, I suppose for us, like we want to I know one of the things that I was going to talk about, because I'm presuming business and books and business and all that kind of thing will come up. But the one book, like, I don't do a lot of business book reading. I do a lot of podcasts, but that's the one. That I come back to so much because that's how when we started the business, it was all about manifesting, envisioning what we wanted, where we wanted the business to go. No, we couldn't have envisioned the different steps that would have taken to get there over the years. But we broke it down year to year and to get where we are, you know, and hopefully that will keep going. You know, it's worked so far. I know in the ether, if you're just listening that it's the secret buy and burn. And I see in your stories as well that you've been in stuff with both the head plan and manifestation we do live at. You know, it's not just for the sake of saying it's, you know, um, I was out for dinner over the weekend with a friend of mine, and she had done a vision board and course that starts the year. And she was saying, like, you know, I never realized like that. You're meant to tie it into your values, your core values. And you, you establish what they are and then you establish what you know your vision for the year is, but it has to tie back into your core values. And I think that was one of the first things we did with the business, was we set our core values. No, don't ask me what they are straight away because they were completely lost in my brain today. But we, you know, the ethics and integrity and the different things that we wanted the business to stand for, And that's all part of vision boarding and manifesting and all that kind of stuff. I love it. I've done a couple of vision boards and I'm very interested in manifestation. I know what's up everybody. I am in business. So I love how intentional it all is. So like the fact that it's not you saying, well, we were very lucky to get here or it just happened for us, you're like, no, we had a plan. This is what we wanted to aim. And we are there now and working on it the whole time. It drives me mad, actually. Sorry to interrupt you. When I see business owners saying, oh, we were so lucky and we've been so lucky with this. It's not luck. It's never luck. It's bloody hard work and everything else like it isn't luck for anybody. And you were saying so Claire said in your bio there, there's like you created the business out of a need for products that were suitable for your kids. And one thing I have seen about Baby Blue is, we'll say, parents of kids with special needs and additional needs love the products because they are so inclusive and so well wearing and things like that. I like, I presume the inclusivity, which was always part of the ethos as well. Yeah, it was. I suppose between us we've have friends with kids who have additional needs and we five kids ourselves, and there is no diversity within those kids. So I suppose it's always top of mind, really. Um, and it's small things like Ruby has various things with sensory like with fabric and with textures and tags and stuff like that. So we don't put tags on any of our like say, our sleeping bags or zippy suits. They don't have tags at the neck that everything is printed onto the fabric because so many kids just don't like tags. You know, we'd say with seams we try and you know, the seams are folded in or they're covered or, you know, the anything that can aggravate or can irritate kids, especially if it's sleepwear, you know, because you want to get as much sleep as you can get, especially if you have a baby. So anything that can help with that is important. So yeah, that's I suppose we always when we're looking at products like we'd never say, Jesus, we haven't invented the weed. Like some of the stuff is out there already. And there are like many companies doing sleeping bags for many years, for example. But I suppose we would have taken further steps to make the product more functional and easier to use, more comfortable, just different for kids or and for parents, I suppose. More so. Yeah, I love the the sleeping bags and the sleeping suits. And one one thing, just in case anybody doesn't know, like your banana peels are analyzable. Is that the right word? So like, even for the baby showers. And so what I started doing, and it's actually a nice thing for somebody to do, I think, is to buy a baby book of some shape or form and put a little quote from the book onto the bib, which is really, really cute. And there's one book I think it's called On the Night You Were Born, and there's one laying in it, and it's like your life will never be the same again. So I put that on a bed for my cousin and I was like, interpret that. We want to see whether it's a good or a bad thing. That's that I think she writes about. Yeah, I love that book. Yeah, yeah. Cuz I do the same with the books I like. My baby shower go to is is book baby is books basically. And obviously a baby or something or other Bush. Um, I just think it's a lovely to get a load of books that we did it. Actually we did. I organized a baby shower for a friend of ours. Last year, and everyone who went brought her a book and put a little note inside the book for her. And the baby has a whole library of books to start with. You know, the bush. Yeah. So those now. And, uh, Benji, have you seen those books? Um. The Adam. Oh, yes. And so his books are just beautiful. They're so lovely for a new baby. It's lovely to have. Books can support children in their experiences. So when we were expecting our second child, we bought books for our first child about, um, new babies. And the whole mummy will go away, but she'll come back again. So our babies was one, um, the invisible string was recommended, and even to this day, like, it still makes a difference. Because if we're going anywhere new or anything, you turn around to me and or if I'm going away and he'll turn her into me and say, mommy will come back. Yeah. Yeah. I love the invisible string. I actually give that to anyone who, you know, if they've had a bereavement or like of a few friends now who've separated or divorced. And I'd always the I'd always buy that for their kids. It's a brilliant one. Yeah. It's a very nice and I think there was nothing really like that around when we were all kids, as far as I'm aware. Nothing to really help anybody process that weak emotional transition. You didn't need to process. We didn't have any emotions, did we? Shut up and get up the stairs. You break. That's exactly it. Yeah. Buying books for kids is such a gorgeous present. And like, I myself would also buy baby boy items, especially the bibs. For anyone I know that has had, you know, a small baby. And I love the range of designs to choose from, especially the fact that there is a lot of them have just this real Irishness about them, be it the language or Irish phrases or whatever it is. Like there's a there's a gorgeous kind of Irish feeling to them. How do the designs come about? Like, you know, how what do you do in terms of the process there? But I suppose for the first five years, maybe every time we were going to do, you know, our winter stock or our spring stock, we'd put it on Instagram or Facebook. It was probably more Facebook at the time. You know, what designs would you like to see? What colors would you like to see? And then. We'd go off and whoever was working at the time, the team would sit down and we'd pull designs that we liked or, you know, different things, like it could be wallpaper, like it could be a wallpaper that you see in a shop, or it could be, you know, like a random things. That's a book, a storybook that one of the girls was reading their kid at night. They'd just snap a picture of a character in the story, in the storybook. You're never actually copying, obviously, but you could take 5 or 6 different elements of inspiration for a giraffe, for example, and then describe it for the illustrator. And I suppose initially we had worn for the first six years, I'd say different illustrators have different styles, and we needed to kind of change things a little bit. And so we brought a second one on, and then we've done different collaborations with different. Like if we come across an illustrator that we really like, we'll approach them and see, you know, will they costume design for us? Sometimes they will, sometimes they won't find a kids. For example, Nadia would be a she's a textile designer in Joplin and she doesn't hadn't done bibs. So we contacted her and asked her would she be interested in us using her designs on our bibs? And that's been a really successful collaboration. We've worked with her for a good few years now. Every season we have some of her designs. Um, Harry baby is our most recent one, so we did. We took some of their styles, which was challenging because they're a little bit naughty, but um, that's push and they didn't want to give us the really naughty ones. Actually, it was funny. I was like, but I think that would work really well. No, you're not putting that in a baby's bib. But, um, so we took ten of their designs and have and that's been massively successful. But as you say, it's the Irish language ones actually fly. Um, in those in that particular collaboration, they're just so popular. And you've done a collaboration with The Gruffalo. Which is greedy class. Beware. Everyone loves. Hello. How did that happen? That was a very steep learning curve. It still is. Um, so I suppose we had licensed other, um, other designs from Irish illustrators and stuff, but this is a completely different ball game, like, um. I just approached them and said, you know, there are no Irish brands licensing your products at the moment, like they're in Asda, Marks and Spencers, Sainsbury's, like lots of the UK brands um, Jojo, uh, Baby Mori, but they're all UK and they probably have a bit of presence obviously in Ireland. They don't have the same kind of vibe as a small business does. So I approached them and there was a lot of back and forth, a lot of toing and froing. It's like they're fantastic to work with, but it's they're very particular, like extremely particular. You know, they have to be obviously, um, because of the size of the brand that you're dealing with. But yeah, it took about two years of work to get the first ten bibs launched. Um, they get it went on for and it's ongoing. Like, it's it's an extremely long process to get anything approved. So you're, you're designing the bib from their designs basically. But we didn't want to do anything that they had designed because they've been used by other brands. So we wanted to do something that was more. More on Brian Frost, I suppose. Um, but I think we should have just gone with the original idea because it just takes forever. Um, because they're they're extremely specific, but yeah. So we've got The Cardigans just launched now with Gruffalo and Mouse and The Cardigans, which is great. It's so cute. I'm not sure. Will we be doing more? Um, we were hoping to do a sleeping bag sleep suit, but it's a three year contract, and we're coming up to the end of the contract at the end of this year, and we're kind of at a point in the process where we won't necessarily have the products in, in time, I think, based on the approval process. So it's a bit, I suppose, bittersweet for us, though. We didn't get to do more products, but it's been a great, um, experience and we'd love to do some more of their like, they obviously have a huge repertoire of books, you know, um, Bush and like, they were, were massive fans in this house, like Ruby had every single one of them. And the graph and the graph Rothschild were, um, straight ahead like her favourites. So, um, yeah, we'd love to do more. So we'll see. We'll see. Are there any other children's books that you would like to collaborate with? Like what would be the dream collab? I would love to do. Um. I would love to do the Tiger Came for Tea, I think would be a big one. That's a huge favorite of Ruby's as well. Um, and I think there's a few other ones that I think would work well was so it's, it's it's such a long process and it's a huge investment. So I'm not sure if it's on the cards, but you never know. Harry Potter would be one obviously. Um, and we have had initial discussions with Warner Brothers on that with God, that sentence, Harry alone is just insane. I you know, I think The Gruffalo opened a good few doors for us, which is great as well, you know, um, and we've had a few chats with them about that, but they're kind of repositioning their baby styles at the moment for the whole Harry Potter brand. Um, so it's kind of down the tracks if we do do it now, I'm not saying we won't. We may do it. Um, but it's just something they're not ready to look at yet. It's still outside of the realm what you would assume you're dealing with. You know what I mean? Like, no, like babies are. And sleeping bags and the carriers like their clothes. So you forget that there is this whole other side to it. It's mad. And then I suppose it's, it's people kind of the whole licensing thing. Like it's so tight, like it takes so long, you know. So like we're in discussions with the GA for example as well. Um, because that side of the business for us has been massively successful. The whole sports side of things, all our gay themed stuff. There's lots of exciting things like that. And then there's lots of of brands who are just putting the characters on their stuff and assuming it'll all be okay. And you know, it's not. You can't like, you can't do that, you know, and that's, I suppose, one thing we'd always be asked, you know, can you not put Peppa Pig on a bib or can you not. You can't like, you can't ethically like you're like, those things are copyrighted. They belong to someone else, you know, and I actually funnily enough, we were only talking in the last couple of days or so about where it has happened there and say it. And Arthur may have taken work inspired by someone else without giving credit, and then we okay or otherwise after that. So actually this ties into that as well. It's just it's kind of comes down to integrity really, doesn't it? Like we've had. We've had a good few other businesses will say, come into the market and just completely rip off our our kind of more popular designs. Um, yeah, I've seen them. Yeah. Yeah. Most of them aren't in the market anymore. We've had we had to go legal with one because it just was insane what they were doing. Um, there's another one that just it's it must be a bit soul destroying when you think of all the work that's gone in. It's very frustrating now, I suppose now I don't we don't find it as irritating as it used to be. And I remember my, uh, my mentor in a program that I did with Enterprise Ireland a few years ago was Marissa Karcher. You know, she does Uncle Brown and. Yeah. And I remember Marissa, I at the time, we were going through that whole legal stuff. And I remember her sitting down saying, you know, they can copy what you've done. And of course they can. Like, anyone can copy what you've done, but they can copy what you're going to do. And that's the thing that would go through my head all the time. If something, you know, we get a message thing. Have you been bought by such and such company because they're doing the same stuff and you're like, you know what? No, Josh, that's what it is. You know, it's horrible. So just on that topic, if there is someone who's listening to this episode and they have that kernel of an idea like you were maybe working elsewhere, but we'd love to branch out into producing this product themselves. You know, they feel they've really original idea, like, what advice would you give to them starting out? I would, I always say, and this happens a lot, we'd get I'd get messages from people on LinkedIn or, you know, emails in saying, you know, could I have a quick chat with you about a product? And usually we'll I'd make the time to talk to them. But. The thing I will always say is, if it's that good an idea. Someone is doing it somewhere. And why aren't they doing it? Like, there's usually a reason, you know? So you research. I suppose it's the key thing always to start with. Um, and we would have done a huge amount of research before we ever even bought the domain for the business. Um, so research, you know, why isn't someone doing it if they're not doing it? And if it is unique, which very few things are these days, unfortunately, then. Yeah. Start looking at how you'd manufacturers is it's not being done because it's really expensive, because you'd have to sell it for a huge amount of money. If you were to put it on the market, what would people pay for it? Who's your target audience? Um, and then sit down with some of your target audience, if you can, and talk to them about the products, obviously people you trust and go from there. But idol generally will always say to someone, there's a reason why it's not being done. If it's not being done. And it's usually if it's a baby product, for example, it's usually because you need a ferocious amount of safety testing for it. And it's really expensive to do that. And you can't do it as a start up, really, unless you have a lot of funding. Um, or you just have personal funds that are endless in the case of safety testing. A lot of businesses will come on the market and just start doing something. So like for example, the whole soother chip market like was huge, huge a few years ago. And most of those businesses are gone out of business now because the CPC has gotten involved and has they've had to do so much testing that it's too expensive to stay in business, which as it should be, you know, they're they're products for babies. They have to be safe, you know. So, Vicky, you've talked to us about the secret and how that has had an influence in your business and how it's influenced your entrepreneurial journey. Other than that. So like you're saying that you don't necessarily read for work. Um, so do you read for pleasure? And like, where did your love of reading come from? Yeah, it's mostly for pleasure, like I read. I read every night before I go to sleep. Um, now, I do go through stages of not reading. Usually if I've read a crap book and then I'm like, right, maybe a break for a while now. Um, but it my love of reading it definitely came from my mother. She's a ferocious reader. Like she references. Is that the expression of ferocious? She reads like she could read 7 or 8 books a week, like she's just constantly reading. Um, so definitely came from her attack. My brother reads the last role. My dad doesn't push, but we both do, and the kids all do as well. So I always have, like, I always have had a book in my hand as a child. They called me the Bookworm. Like, um, so yeah, I've always. And what are you reading at the moment? I just started David Nicholls. Um, us is us. Yes. Yeah, just started that one. Now, I should say I read with the Kindle. So I am a disaster for remembering the names of books. I just don't stay in my brain because of the Kindle like I used to be. Brilliant. If I had a physical book in my hand, I'd always remembered the name. I'd be able to recommend it to someone. Whereas now I'm like, I just finished a great book, but I can't remember the name of it. I love to look at the planet and tell you what happened of that. And do you ever listen to audiobooks? Well, funny you should ask that actually. Now I just listened to my first audiobook. I did, I just listened and I can't remember the name of it. Uh, it was it was Lisa Marie Presley's biography. It was brilliant. I'm a big Elvis fan, so I wanted to get into audiobooks for ages, and I tried 1 or 2. And do you know what? I actually tried 1 or 2 business books. I actually just don't think of my business book person like, and I probably should be, but I just don't hold my interest. I have two books business wise that I've only that I refer back to, I suppose, and that I do recommend. And that's Atomic Habits And the chimp paradox. I think they're both brilliant. Um, and I do go back and pick out bits from those every so often. But besides that, I just I couldn't get into the audiobooks either. So I kind of laughed at slate. And then someone recommended it and I loved it. No, I loved it because it was narrated by Riley Kuehl, her daughter. It's a lot of her own audio and stuff. So it was really interesting. It was just really, really good. Yeah, I think starting with biographies or autobiographies is a good way to get into audiobooks, but that sounds like the production of it was really good as well. And you know, the way you were saying about the audios, I was actually listening. I'm listening to a series at the moment, and it's a dramatized version of it. So like they literally have sound of people walking the doors opening, like everything, and it's a totally elevated experience altogether. But then other people who were listening to the same version, we're like, no, it's too much. There's too much going on in my ears, I can't. So it's very much up to the listener like. Personal choice, I suppose. Yeah, I don't know. I started, um, a Graham Norton one, an audiobook then, and I just was like, no, no, I don't like the sound of Graham Norton in my ear. Does he narrate them himself? So I thought he'd be a good eraser then. Like, he kind of does the accents of the characters and stuff. Is he being a bit twee or something? It's just not for me now. And I do enjoy his books, but no. Is there a particular book that you would always recommend to people? I usually I'm I usually recommend authors like. So if someone says to me, right, I really like this, I'd be like, great. Shalini Boland is brilliant. Um, I love Lisa Jewel and but I know I'll enjoy their books. I like Liane Moriarty, I like Kate Morton. If I see their books, I'd be like, great. And then I'd be like, you like any of those because they're all good. Like, it's weird that they love a bad book. You know, I just finished The Truth About Melody Brown a few weeks ago, so that was brilliant. Absolutely brilliant. And I did remember that because there's a name and a melody Brown say, I won't remember anything else, though it actually makes a difference if you see the cover of a book or not. I actually think that must be it, because I can't. I just can't, and I'll even be in Easton's looking at the books and I'll be like, oh, I think I've read that, but I'll have to read the back of it and go, did I or didn't I do that? And would you read thrillers, do you think mostly or. Yeah, really like a good mystery or a good read. And I just want to push her on you. Yeah I love yeah. Yes. Oh that's right. Um, and I really enjoyed Michelle MacDonald's book actually as well. Just on the Irish author's point of view, there is a coracle author, actually, Amy Jordan, I don't know if you've seen her new one. She, she, she's written a few books under her. Married or made the name one or the other. But she's she's writing it's the. So now Amy Jordan is her maiden name. Yeah, yeah. And it's the Dark Hours and it only came out in the last few weeks. And it's set in Cork. It's set between the city and Douglas and it's oh, and West Cork actually as well. But it's brilliant. Absolutely brilliant. What's it about Rebecca? Because I know that you wrote about that there recently is so is it starts in the now with uh I think she's in her like 50s or 60 years retired detective living below in West Cork. And we get the idea very early on that she's kind of gone there to get away from her job and where she used to work. And then it goes back into the past, and it transpires there is this serial killer who she had a brush with, and they kind of try and bring her back in because it seems that even though he has passed away, someone is murdering people again in the same style. Oh, I like that. And I would say, yeah, yeah, I hate thrillers, like on the TV or movies or anything. I can't watch them. And then I don't know what it is about books, but if something is really scary. I then I can't read it at night. Like I was reading one last week. Um, that it was Ruth wear a Ruth wear book. Oh, God. The turn of the key. I think it was called something like that anyway. And it was. So it was freaking me out so much. I had to sit down on Saturday afternoon and finish the book because I was like, it's daylight, so I'll finish it now. I like watching a scary movie. It's a really good time when a book and a picture that much. That's the thing with the good thriller. Like, I just I'll have to. Or like Momma's loves a good thriller now as well. And she'd be like, oh, you really like this one now? But I'm like, you're raising during the day. She doesn't read at night. So I'm like, it's easy for you to read a good thriller when you're reading this, sitting in your sit in the day, like, because when you're working and you have kids and stuff, just bedtime is the only time that you can read. Really. It's, you know, if it's 100% or like, as I say, you know, a day afternoon, that's a proper treat for me. Like if, yeah, if I can sit down and, um, read for a few hours in peace, you know, really. But it's nice, but your kids are small. You see, it is a big thing. Yeah. They're not going to leave the house and go for a while. Yeah, I wash what kind of stuff with Ruby read actually. Because. Because we're always looking for kids books. Recommendations. Yeah. She's just started Percy Jackson at the moment, so she's 11. So she got really into Roald Dahl actually this year, which I loved because I loved frozen myself as a child. Um, so she has been picking up bits like she's a strange reader now. She can read about three books at one time, which I cannot or could never do. Um, but she can. So she's reading a book in school, and she started Percy Jackson the other day because she bought us she had vouchers for reasons, but she's also reading a Roald Dahl book, um, the Glass Elevator, I think. And in the books, they're also books that Ruby's been reading. Has she been reading like, the new religious convert or. I don't know, to be honest. She's just been getting them from the library. They go to the library every Wednesday with school, and I'd say it's just whatever is there. So I probably would presume they're probably the older ones. I can't they certainly don't look fresh looking at the books. So, um, no, she did by the glass, the Charlie and the Glass elevator. But she did buy that one, so I'll have a look at it. It's upstairs. Bush. It was, um, BFG and James and Jane Peach. Um. Was the other one that she loved. The just ones that I read as well. So it was nice, you know, to see her reading them. I think they're classics, you know. She went through a phase of The Secret Seven and the Famous Five last year, which I thought was brilliant. I was trying I'm trying to get her into Malory Towers at the moment. So I'm going to get the box set of those for her. She's. Yeah. So Percy Jackson at the moment, but she kind of dips in and out. If she doesn't, if it doesn't take her straight away, she's done. Like she won't keep going. You know, she sounds like me. Yeah. She won't. Whereas I kind of do. If I'm committed to it, I'll finish it. Generally, it won't be really bad for me not to finish it. We watched actually last weekend. The Netflix. Are you there? God. It's me Margaret. It's very good. The movie is very good. We both really enjoyed it. Um, it's very nostalgic because that was. That's my era. Like all those books. It is a cute one. Yeah, it's the same age as her, like, so she enjoyed that, you know? Yeah. I love a good adaptation. No, to be fair. Do you have a favorite book that you'd always go back to? Um. Do I have a favorite book? I don't really, to be honest, I don't. I'm kind of one of these people. Once I've read it, I've read it. I used to I used to love The Horse Whisperer. For some reason, I were back to that. Alas, I sport over the years, but I haven't read it in years now. You said that you do dip back in and out of you. Say the the secret and things like that manifest I take out every so often. I'll read a few chapters of that. Should I get that? Yeah, it's very good. It's a secret. It's not too far off the mark on that. It's heavily inspired. I would say, gosh, it is good though. It's kind of a more modern version of it, I suppose. I started just on my copies there. I got it as a book from The Tired Mommy Book Swap. It's, um, an online book club when we do a book swap every Christmas and stuff, it's brilliant. But Atomic Habits was one of the books that I use asked my body for, I suppose. Yeah. So I'm I'm actually reading a couple of chapters of us, not many. Like, because I need to give back into us. I feel like I can sit down and just read it. Yeah. No, it's not one. You can just sit down and reach the end. So you do have to kind of take a break from it and try and implement it and then go back to it. Yeah. Um, but it's all about habit stacking basically. So like, you know, starting with one good habit in the morning. So I'll drink a pint of water when I come down the stairs before I do anything else, or I get up ten minutes earlier than I normally do so that I feel more organized, or I'll make a list before I go on holidays so that I know what I need to bring, you know, just simple things and that it's stacking the habits. So like it's. I'll get up a little bit earlier in the morning. I'll come down the stairs. I'll have a pint of water. I'll have prepared the lunch the night before. So I'm being a friend to my future self, so I'm a bit more organised. You know, it's it's just all kind of creating habits that, um, help to make life easier as opposed and just kind of make you more efficient to make you more definitely need me so that, yeah, the head kind that falls into that as well, really, because it is very much a OCE, you know, lists and I, I'm a list person anyway, but it's about lists and actually taking things off your list and you know, the sense of achievement and moving on to the next thing you know. Um, but yeah, I presume you approach work the same kind of way. So most of the time, no, obviously we all have days where you don't want to do that one thing. Yeah. I suppose the challenge for me with work is switching off at night and stuff like now it's not as much of a challenge to be fair anymore. Like I suppose in the first 7 or 8 years of the business, I actually don't know how I did it. When I think back, like I was working 9 to 5, she was very small. There's just the two of us, so there was no one else. Um, I'd put her to bed and then I'd be working until 11, 12. One like, could be, you know, doing ads or doing Facebook or whatever, or it could be physically packing orders if we were really busy or whereas now I suppose we have staff that help with a lot of that stuff, but it's the just when there's something new or when it's busy or when when it's really busy and you're packing orders yourself during the day and you've no time to do your actual job, do you know what I mean? So you have to do it in the evening or the afternoon and the evening. So I suppose that's the challenge I have is keeping on top of all of that. And how do you switch off and what would you do to help, you know, detach from that? Because as you say, like when you're your own boss, you don't really know where to stop, I suppose because you could always continue working. I suppose I just like I don't a lot of the time I don't bring the laptop home. So if I'm leaving work at 3:00 or whatever, I just don't bring the laptop. I leave it and work and then I can't work. Now, obviously I have the phone so I can still check my email and all that kind of stuff. But I do make a, I suppose, a concerted effort not to check my email after 6:00. We used to be answering emails. Up all the time, like an email would come in and you just answer it. And there was no boundaries. There was no like. And then people expect us because when you answered me on a Saturday the last time, why didn't you answer me this Saturday when I emailed you? I was on holiday or, you know, so we just had to. I suppose that you learn lessons like that along the way and as you go, you know, you just you have to put boundaries in place. So I suppose in the evenings at home, I just it's just routine. It's just habit. I just switch off. I switch off the laptop at 6:00 or if I'm, if I have to do something at night. So if like last night, I had forgotten to set up two new staff members on email and stuff, I had to do it because they were starting today. So I had to put on the laptop and do it then. Um, so obviously there's going to be times like that or there's going to be, you know, someone will send an Instagram message and say, um, you know, your PayPal isn't working and you have to log on or get on to our technical guy or whatever, but generally, and we'd be fairly good as boundaries now, we think. And how do you find it then, with being online? Because we have a very active presence on Instagram anyway. Do you find that, like you're always in work mode and when you're because you're on your social media mostly? Yeah, me and I have a marketing person, and we're actually looking for another marketing person at the moment because we had someone, but she went on leave and isn't coming back to us, unfortunately. But so since she's been gone, I suppose I've probably been doing more than I would have been doing because obviously one person can't do the job of two. So I've taken back some of that. I just I'm used to it, I just don't I don't see that as work a lot of the time, and I know what it is, but I just it's just part of like it's just normal to check. Yeah, it is Instagram I suppose. And I suppose the other side of it is from a marketing point of view, it's, it's after 9:00 at night that more people are on Instagram and are seeing posts, and so we tend to do a bit more at nighttime. So that is me. Like, I wouldn't expect any staff member to be logging onto Instagram at night to do stuff, you know? So it's just partial, just, you know, you are nearly always on then like left up at work at six, but then you're on Instagram for the evening. I know to be there like it's not all work, where I suppose you get more efficient at things as well. Like where I was here the other night and I had a friend down for the weekend and we were watching something on the TV, and she was I knew she was talking to me about something and I was like, hang on a second, because I can't. She was like, what's wrong? And I said, oh, Ireland won the rugby today and I forgot to post a link to our rugby stuff, so I just need to do that. And she was like, you actually don't ever switch off. And I was like, I do, I do switch off, but this is just take me. And it did just take me one minute to do. And then the phone was away and I could talk to her, but so it's just. It's I don't know, it's just ingrained in us at this point. You know, like Michelle will often text me at nighttime and go, um, did you remember to do this or, um, did you know such a such person is pregnant? Do we need to send them something? Or do you know, it's just the way. It's just the way we work. And I suppose it's our business. It's the kind of like another baby for us, you know? Yeah. And I suppose social media has been around most, if not all of the time. The business has been there, like Facebook and then Instagram. So it obviously is an integral part. Facebook would have been a huge part of the business in the first few years, but Instagram is another ballgame altogether. Like it's much faster, you know, whereas Facebook, you reposted something, you took out comments, you'd have been keeping an eye on the comments that would have been really, whereas Instagram was different. I read your favorite and what's the word? Contemptible. And yeah, people expect you to be available. Yeah, yeah. But people get very impatient because everyone is so contactable now, you know? Okay. So it's just part of it I think. Yeah. So yeah, it's just it's just finding that balance. And as you said earlier, putting those boundaries in place that You are comfortable with that are also conducive to the business and your customer and so on. And you're like, we have to keep barges coming in. And if I didn't post on Instagram at the weekend, orders would drop by about 30%. Really? Wow. It's significant. Like if I'm away for the weekend and there's obviously less posted because I'm not, I obviously don't sit down and go, right, I'll put up some posts now, um, that we'll notice there's a dip in orders on the Monday. God, it's such a tool. So for your business and I suppose, like even just the two of us with the podcast, like trying to get our head into a more busy like, I'm not business minded in any shape or form. And, Rebecca, you're much better at it than I am, but just trying to navigate the social media and when you should, when you can see an opportunity for linking something. So seasons as well. And it's all like like advertising campaigns like slow at the moment. No. Like obviously Valentine's is just gone. You've and it's a busy time like the first few months of the year because like you've said, Patrick's Day, Mother's Day, Easter, then you're heading into summer holidays and theming things around that. And then it's the summer drops. It's the lighter tugs. That's. Back to school. Uh, or your father's day. Sorry. In the middle. Then back to school. Never ending. Like with Christmas. I need to put in the Christmas order. Actually, in the next few weeks. For context, we're recording this in the last week of February. Um, I love Christmas, but, like, it has to be looked at now. Like we've put in like we've we've kind of more or less created the order based on last year's sales. And then we'll look at trends and stuff like that coming up to Christmas, if anything new comes on the market or whatever. But yeah, it's um, and then the baby fair, everything is kind of pinned around the two baby fairs in the days before we finish up. There's one question here that I think we should definitely look at. If you could have dinner with any author, past or present, who would be and why? I actually don't know. Probably Enid Blyton, I suppose, because she our Judy Blume. I've loved those books as well. I always I seem to go back to my childhood favorites when I think of stuff like that. Um, yeah, I suppose probably one of them. Yeah, that's the sentimentality that it is. Yeah. And even just have if you've conversations with friends and stuff, it's always those two writers that you go back to, like Judy Blume and particularly like Jesus. I remember they banned her from the library and everything at one point, and we were in primary school, um, because. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because the content was like, I mean, she, you know, I was talking about sex and stuff. She can't be having that, like impressionable young girls in school. Very. You know, I usually do a quick fire run at the end of the interview. You have to do that. It's an either or kind of a thing. Go on, go for it. No, as far as that, it is an either or. Feel free to just choose and move on or explain your answer. It's up to you. Okay, so number one, DNF or power through. I've no idea what either of those things are. So DNF is did not finish. So if you were like, no, I give you open this card, you power through and finish all I power through. Yeah. Sorry. Yeah. Uh, number two, redeploy the pool or read the fire. Oh, by the pool, 100%. Number three. Fiction or non-fiction? Fiction. Always. Number four. Do you prefer a book to movie adaptation or a book to TV adaptation? Um, TV, I think. Yeah, I kind of funny about movies. I a lot of the time I won't go see them. If I really liked the book, I think the TV they put more in and they kind of get the full gist of whatever it was meant to be about. Uh, number five read in silence or read with background music. Silence or with number six, plus driven books or character driven books. Character driven. I think I generally would prefer a book if I really like the characters. If I can't gel with the characters, I find it hard. Very good. Uh, number seven, do you prefer to buy books or more of them. Buy them, I suppose, because it's the Kindle, I generally buy them. Oh yeah. Yeah, I can't read a physical book anymore. I discovered that recently. Michelle gave me, um. Oh, she loves those. What's your man? The Dublin four guy. Oh, Russell. Karen. She loves those books. So she keeps telling me you have to read me. And I'm like, I don't have them, and I'm not buying them because I don't know if I like them. And she's like, she has the physical book and she get. And I just sat next to the bed for about six weeks, so I can't read it, I can't, it's just something about holding a book now. I just can't do it so well. Um, number eight, do you prefer to browse in a bookshop or order online? Order online generally because it's Kindle again? Oh yes. Of course. Yeah. Now I do like I suppose I go we do go into a lot of bookshops, and I do like supporting a bookshop where I can with a cousin. Sheila was buying books in a bookshop. Um, but generally I don't. Number nine, would you prefer to start another business or write your own book? Start another business? I don't think I'm a writer. I always have loads of business ideas though. Do you? Yeah yeah, yeah. With two others on the go at the moment. Oh, yeah. See them soon. I've got to share the secret. Do people realize their secrets yet? Does this have anything to do with a little logo that you put up recently? Yes. Okay. But there's always something in the back of my head. That's a great brain to have. Just one of those people saw. Yeah. So number ten, do you prefer the baby boom boom or the baby boom? Blanket bibs and always be bibs. Because they were the the baby. The first baby. Um, I do love the blankets as well, obviously. And they would be our other big seller Bush. The bibs will always be our both our favorite I think greatly if you had to pick from all of our children. I love your Christmas blanket soon. Yeah. They're flowing actually. They're well, they were they're not anymore. Obviously not Christmas. Um, but the family blankets, the and the the kid size ones so that they're kind of in between the family and the baby. They're very popular. Yeah. I love the Christmas blanket. Obviously, around Christmas time, I love putting it up on the couch. And there's the family name record of the artist. Then I'd love to get a big drink of water during the year. You know, it's not funny. Funny you should say that. Now, we do actually have other ones online that are not Christmas. But. Sam. Yeah. You know. Okay, thanks. I'm not angry out here for anyone listening. Oh, Vicky, thanks so much for coming on. Appreciate your time. No bother. I really enjoyed that. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you so much for listening to this edition of Another Chapter podcast. Don't forget to subscribe, like and share to keep the book conversation going. Thank you to Helen Becerra for the graphics, Mark Neville for the mixing, and to each of our contributors. Music is make it work by all good folks. Don't forget to follow along on Instagram at another Chapter podcasts. We'll see you there.