Season 3. Chapter 8.

Interview with Lorna Sixsmith 1

 Welcome to season three, chapter eight of Another Chapter, The Podcast. And tonight we have another fantastic guest for you all and all through this time. So Lorna Sixsmith is a dairy farmer who tries to stay sane by reading and writing. She's had a few different careers teaching interior design, social media teaching, and is currently doing an Ma in Regional history with plans to write historical fiction. She's married to Brian, has two kids at uni, both abroad, and they have three dogs. Her busiest farming time of year is the spring when calving is underway, so the autumn is her prime reading and writing time. So welcome, Lorna. Thank you very much. I'm delighted to be here. obviously this time of year is a good time to be chatting about your book, which is a, well, country girl at heart. I was going to say are country girl, country girl at heart. Mhm. Um, and that is this is your first fiction release, if I'm not mistaken. Yeah. It's my first novel. Uh, previously I've, I self-published three non-fiction humorous books about farming, and then I had a traditional publishing deal to write a farming memoir, and that was in 2018. And then this is my first novel. Excellent. And I'm sure actually your your other books are behind me there would you marry a farmer? to beat You. That's it. How to Be a Perfect Farm Wife was the second one. And an ideal. Yeah, and Ideal Farm Husband was the third. And the memoir was Till the Cows Come Home. Yes, yes. And, um, as someone who married into a farm and have, you know, I have I had no farming background whatsoever. I had cousins who lived in a farm, and we'd occasionally my memories of that are helping to do cocks of straw at points during the summer with the pigs. And except we were just jumping on top of them and jumping from bail to bail at their farm. I had no concept of farming, really. Uh, would join macro kind of for the other kind of activities like the debating and the sports activities and so on. My found a farmer, married a farmer. So actually your your books were I found sort of humour in them because there were so many things that were so on the nose for someone like me who had, you know, not at Oh. all come from a farming background. Um, very much involved. No, but you, you were very much involved in farming. Were you always farming? Well, yes. Well, yes. In that I was brought up on Yeah. this farm. So this was originally my farm. But when I was growing up, I've got tons of allergies so that my, my farming activities were limited because of all the allergies. Okay. Okay. I was allergic to straw, for example, grass pollens, etc.. Um, but so farming, for one reason or another, because I had a younger brother, it was never I never thought of it as a career. Um, and my husband and I, he's Irish as well, but we went to over to London and then we ended up in Salisbury for ten years. I was a secondary school teacher and he was a scientist. And then because my younger brother didn't want to farm and my dad was coming close to retirement, he was getting, you know, he was 65, needed to retire, take things easier. He offered it to us. Um, it took about a year to make the decision. And, um, we came back to Ireland in 2002 when our son was three weeks old and started from there. My husband had been had been brought up on a farm as well, but a smaller farm, and he was a second son, so he went off to uni to do his own thing. Um, but I suppose having had that distance meant that, you know, I, I also came into the small community. I was in the goldfish bowl. didn't know people. Everyone knew who we were. You know, it was all of that. And even though I'd grown up on a dairy farm and I had done the things like help to milk cows and vaccinate calves and stand in a gap. But a lot of it was still new to me. I suppose I had I did experience that newness just as you, just as you did. And just like so many, so many spouses do when they marry a farmer. with the child three weeks old, to be doing anything is phenomenal, to be honest. But to be making such a huge life change is amazing. Yeah. I suppose we were in England, in Salisbury, and I suppose we decided, I think it was around January, February time that we would come back to the farm, but our baby was due. When was your due? mid-June. And we were doing up a house at the time as well. Um, so it was a case and I also watched finish out the pregnancy over there. I don't know, I was just sort of superstitious about it. So it's like, no, I want to wait until the baby's born, and then we'll we'll finish the house and we'll come back in July. Um, but of course, he ended up going 12 days overdue, and I ended up having a section. And of course, our house had sold in the UK, so we had a date for when we had to be out. So it was the 15th of July, so it all had to it all had to happen. And because I forget, what's the hormone that you get when you're feeding your baby? Um, prolactin isn't no, no product or whatever it was. Anyway. It was fantastic. I was very relaxed. My husband was stressed out, but I was very relaxed. How did you find that that that first way? I can only imagine. It took it took a long time to settle in into the lovely kind of routine you have now. We'll say, like, however many years that. Oh, yeah. It took a while. Initially, we didn't move to the farm. My parents were still living on the farm. Um, and I suppose I was very conscious of that goldfish bowl happening as, as well as having lived independently for 10 to 12 years. I just thought moving in with the parents is not going to be a good idea with a tiny baby. we actually bought a house, uh, close to town, um, and that we thought that would just be a year or two, but it ended up actually being three years before we moved to the farm. Uh, we actually built my my parents a bungalow, and we moved into the farmhouse, but I suppose have, although it probably went on for a little bit too long, having that distance, I think, helped because it meant that we didn't have to acclimatise as quickly. I still had a town house in town, and I could still meet friends for coffee, and I wasn't exactly thrown into the hole having to go out and, you know, feed calves, etc. and yeah, I was still quite relaxed. I just kept feeding my baby and just let the hormones take over. Solid strategy and fairness. obviously you were getting used to the whole career change in general, like going from kind of working for Um. other people and then kind of working Yeah. for yourselves, essentially. When did the writing come into it? Like, was it something you were always interested in doing or was it only something that kind of came up, I suppose, down the line when things were more we're more settled. Well, I think, like a lot of avid readers, when I was a kid, I just read all the Enid Blyton and everything else, you know. Um, and I suppose when I was quite young, I had a goal with writing stories, you know, Famous five type or Circus of Adventure type, you know, put in my own characters. my degree was English and history, and I was teaching English, did a master's in Irish history. And then I was teaching English literature, and then I went on to teach media studies at sixth form. But writing a book was always something I kind of said I'd do it in the future when I time. And I think, to be honest as well, I was thinking when I have the confidence to do so. I suppose writing started in 2009 when I started blogging. I was working as an interior designer with my own business, and when I set up a website, I'd heard that blogging was good for SEO. I started blogging. Um, not just about interior design, but also about what was happening on the farm. And then I think it was 2011. I set up a farming blog. And then I think it was 2012 or early 2013. I had been working, um, vaccinating calves with my husband, and we were separating the calves into male and female and, and we end up shouting at each other, and he ends up telling me to stop the black one because they're all black and all of that. So I wrote a blog post entitled Ten Pieces of Advice for Anyone Who's Marrying a Farmer. Um, and that post went viral, and I kind of thought to myself, if there's that much interest in a blog post, I wonder if there's a book in if people would be interested in a book about farming life. I don't really have time to write a book if nobody's going to buy it and nobody's going to read it. Um, so I decided to run a crowdfunding campaign, um, because I knew it was going to take a certain amount of investment. And a friend of mine had self-published a book, and she'd given me some tips on how to do it. So I ran a crowdfunding campaign, I think it was €6,000, and I got almost 2000 funders. And with that, then I promised everyone. This was in August, and I promised everyone that had the book for Christmas. And they did. Oh, wow. Yeah. play too. old were your kids at that stage when you started reading the book? They were born in 2002 and 2004, and that was 2013. So yeah, there were nine and eight and ten that kind of age. Yeah. Still young. it was easier then in a way, because they went to bed at half seven, 8:00 and then I would and my husband was working late. So I would go down, I'd be on the sofa for a 8:15, and I would write 12:00, That's brilliant. you know, and I would get a little bit during the day. But I was most productive at night where I don't have the energy for that. Now. I can't do anything past Yeah. 9:00, so. I think we're all the same. Okay, so that came from a blog post, right? I actually didn't realize that. Or if I did not, I think I had forgotten that. And was this the success of that one that kind of made you decide to go, you know, with the follow ons? Or was it always kind of the hope and intention that there would be 2 or 3 No. It was initially was the book Would You Marry a farmer? And then I thought that was it. I was quite I was doing more on the farm then as well, because the children were getting that bit older and my father wasn't doing as much. So it just happened that I was doing more and more. And, and then because the sales of that book went well, I did a print run of a thousand each time, and I can't remember when I did each print run, but basically I've sold nearly 3000 hard copies of that of that book, um, plus whatever was sold on Amazon, because obviously on Amazon, it was a print on demand. Um, and then I think it was I published the second one in September 2015, but I think I only decided on that around January. Um, and then of course, the next one follows, then an ideal for my husband. And then I was kind of after I turned that one, because it kind of made it into a new trilogy. I was like, oh, what am I going to write next? And what was becoming very popular was farming memoirs, particularly in the UK, where a farmer would write sometimes a funny book or a humorous book about their own farming experiences, and an agent contacted me and offered to represent me and. Basically, I just wrote a proposal, uh, for a number. Uh, think I had about eight ideas for books, and my agent sent it off to publishers. And then I was like, yeah, black and white will publish a memoir and give us some titles. And again, six months to write the memoir, and it was published five months later. That is some speed, isn't it? Like you're able to really knock a mouse. Well, with that, the novel took me three years, so that was much slower. But, um, but I think that the, the thing with the novel, it was that we could go in so many different directions where I found the, the nonfiction was fairly tight, and also because I had a deadline, for example, with the with the perfect foreign wife and an ideal foreign husband, I gave myself the deadline of each September because for the ploughing championships, Ah! because I knew that bringing it out for the going, I would get press coverage. And then the memoir, obviously, the publisher gave me deadline. So. That is so clever. I, I was assuming all right. It was kind of on purpose that they would be coming out around that time. But I suppose when you were self-publishing. So like your father will say, the trilogy was self-published. So, like, how much pressure is there as the author must be huge. this was well, the the main stress with perfect Farm Wife was that I think it was early July. I wasn't quite happy with the structure of it. I can't remember what way I had it. was away for a long weekend at something I can't remember. And I came back and I remember emailing my editor and saying, I'm going to change the structure of Perfect Farm Wife. And as I said to us, so don't do any more work. I sent her a draft. I said, don't do anything more on it because I'm totally changing it. And I think in a month I turned the whole structure of it around. And then obviously I have you've got to give the printers time to print it. And the printers were Irish printers, and they had loads of stuff to print for the ploughing, because every single farming company was getting printers to, you know, to print brochures and flyers and different things. you change much of your kind of strategy for all of that? We'll say publicizing it and so on, from book one to book three to the current book, we'll say. before each ploughing championships with book two and book three, I sent out press releases. And I remember for perfect farm life there was. I realised that there was no point in sending out a press release that just said, Laura Sixsmith has published another book. They weren't going to be interested in that. I needed to give them something funny that was different from what the usual press releases about livestock or machinery or whatever was happening around the time of the ploughing. So I devised a press release and it was entitled something ways to find an Eligible Farmer at the ploughing are five ways to attract an eligible farmer at the ploughing. And I was things like what wellies you should wear, you know, things like that. I got something like eight radio interviews Wow. Oh, out of wow, that, you know, which was. that's really smart. And then for an ideal form husband. Um, the Irish independence, which I don't know if you know, but you will, Rebecca. It has a farming supplement on a Tuesday. they offered to launch my third book in their tent at the ploughing, Oh, and cool. they did a double page spread as well for the week that the ploughing was on. So, you know, the much PR I got was brilliant. And was that we'll say was that thing with The independent? Was that because they were aware kind of of you from the other books are how did that come about? Um, I suppose. Well, yeah, they were aware of me from the other books, but also I think I at that time I was also involved in women and farming groups, and one thing that we were doing was trying to get the farming media to feature female farmers more. I had a good relationship with the journalists within the Farming Independent. and then when the new I was bringing out a new book, I can't remember how the conversation actually happened. Whether I asked or they came to me, I honestly can't remember. But, uh, but when they offered or when I. Yeah, I was like, yes, please. You know, because obviously stands at the ploughing are expensive. It was well, I can only imagine. Yeah. Can I ask just in general, like so I'm on the very brink of farming life in the sense that, like my in-laws have a farm and that I visit occasionally and say hello to the cows and the chickens and stuff, and that's about it. But with the female to male ratio within the farming community, like you would know way more about this. Like is it still quite small? Like, what's the story? that apparently 13% of farms of land are owned by women, but obviously, um, for and. Yeah, traditionally the man would have been the, the, the son would have been the person who inherited the farm. So traditionally farming is very male dominated. And quite often of that 13% who owned farms, I think it was six, like half of those. So 6% are actually widows. Um, now I was one of that 13%, because if the farm came to me and I did the Green Cert and I was the young, qualified farmer and all the yeah, it is very much in the minority. But I do see a lot of women who who once, sometimes once children come along or for whatever reason, when they're married to a actually, you know, get as involved in the farm. Now, some of them will say, oh, I just do the paperwork or I just stand in a gap or whatever it might be. But I've seen plenty of women who are from towns that really get stuck in with milking cows and feeding calves and everything else. So although on paper it looks like more farmers are male, there is a significant proportion of farmers out there that are female. They're just not registered as such. Yeah, because there's an awful lot of interest now online, from what I can see, of people kind of trying to pull back from an world where we're overly connected and turned on all the time, and looking for that kind of country element, of going back to going back to basics, going back to our roots and being connected with the land and animals and stuff. So there are people that are very much interested in doing this. Like these books are a great way for someone to get an insight into farming. you ever looked back and. Maybe regretted it or gone. What was I thinking? Or do you think that coming back to the rural life is just the way to be like? I find it very appealing. I would love to live rurally and to be stuck into the land and everything like that. I think it's a really lovely thing to do, and I'd say it's quite therapeutic to, to be honest, I know in hindsight, I think if we'd known we're going to be coming back, we would have traveled more, you know what I mean? It's not if we'd known that. But, yeah, I think I think the timing helped as well. Because I was pregnant. Because we were, you know, we're starting to start a family. Um, so that the whole thing about moving back and having family around us and all of that helped the decision as well. yeah, definitely was a huge change coming back. And did we ever regret it? Yes. There were moments because, you know, back then we're both earning reasonable, reasonably good wages. Um, I had great holidays. So did my husband. You know, it's very difficult to get time off when you're a full time farmer. were doing up houses and we're renting them out. So sometimes we look back and think, oh, my God, a farm is like an expensive mistress. They just keep taking money from you, you know? It's constant investment. Um, and, yeah, it just feels like another woman in your in your life. An expensive one. Um, so. Yeah, I'm not saying that we never regret this, but yes, it is a good life, but it's not an easy one. know, it's a great life for young children, and. But there are long hours within us, and, you know, and during February and March, you know, I suppose I grew up being used to that, excepting that I would have 6 to 8 weeks where there would be absolutely no social life and there would be 18 hour days, um, for, for that length of time. mean, there was I think it was about 3 or 4 years ago, I think it was. Chalker did some research saying that, you know, dairy farmers are having a really tough because they're they're doing 80 hours a week during calving. And my reaction to that was 80 hours by Thursday lunchtime, you know, what are you all about? You know, because because because it's just the two of us. And, um, we do have a little bit of help this year with a relief milker, but to be honest, we've always just got on with this. And because we bought land and we had more debt and everything, so part of it was because the funds weren't there to get in more help, and partly because we're both quite introverted and we just prefer to get on with ourselves. So it comes down to our personality as well. I think we discovered during Covid that we really like our own company and we like the solitude. So maybe it it is it is the perfect occupation for us. your your new book, Country Girl at Heart. How long has that been? I know you said. Okay, so it's taken you three years to write, but how long has that book been in your head to write? Wednesday. Oh I think, I think since, since I wrote the other books, particularly How to Be a Perfect Farm know, a country girl at heart. It's about a woman She's 28, and she used to spend her childhood summers with her aunt on her aunt and uncle's farm in Ireland. But she lived in London. Her mother had been brought up on a farm, left it as soon as she could, and went to London. Kelly has left London with a broken heart and all she can fit into her car, and she's going to her aunt's farm, sort of to recuperate for a few months. Um, so she is very much the city girl who is landing in rural Ireland, and because of her uncle's illness and her uncle having to go to hospital and her aunt going as well, although they have a hobby farm, they don't have that many animals, but she is having to help out and milk the goats and look after the dogs and the chickens and the two cows and things like that. And within that, of course, she's she's introduced to farming very quickly, and there's lots of humor involved. So I think, yeah, I've always had that idea to write a novel from the perspective of a woman who wasn't from a farming background and has launched into it. of the best laughs I had read in that book were the scenes where poor Kelly is learning to slash milking the goats, and just the descriptions of it, because I had no concept. Like I can be really oblivious about farming things, even though still. And I had no concept of what was actually involved in milking Is it different to milking a goat is two teats compared to a cow having four. But now, nowadays, you see, milking a cow is all done by machine. Where because we just had the one goat were handling her, and, um. Yeah, she she wasn't an easy goat. I mean, like, a lot of what happened in the book is based on the real Becky. You know, I might have changed details sometimes, but she got the better of me on more than one occasion. Yeah, But actually, there's someone I know through. Through Macra. Um, they have set up their own in goat's milk business. And, like, they'd randomly share, obviously, pictures on their Instagram and stuff about milking the goats, but they actually have, like, a little proper little milking setup with the tiny little clusters and stuff. And like it, it is the naughtiest little thing. But like, I remember actually only seeing those videos for the first time around the time because I was looking after to to reuse kind of an early copy of Lawrence's book. remember seeing the videos around the time I was reading that and just being like, oh my God, I had no concept that any of it was like this and just being totally mind blown, while also thinking it was absolutely gasp what Becky got up to, while also being delighted that I've never had to milk a goat because I don't think I would have the patience. Because at the time I was kind of thinking oh I wonder what it would be getting to, you know, goat milking and you know have a milking parlor and you know all the rest. And you know, I thought, well, we get a couple of goats and see how we go. Now, I think Becky was probably quite an exceptional goat. Um, in terms of a personality, you could like people who have 300 goats. You could not have 300 Becky's, Yeah. you know. Um, I think the person who sold her to me knew what she was doing. Um. She wanted rid of Becky. And how much, I suppose. How much else of what you wrote, about Kelly and her life getting used to the farm and, like, how how many more of those situations were based in reality as well? Well, I'm not saying any of them, any of the others were copied. Exactly. Or you know, there would be, would be a, you know, adjusted and edited. I mean definitely the whole feeling of being in a goldfish bowl was there when we came back. And also the sense of, you know, going to the creamery or going to the local shop and feeling that everyone knew who we were and not knowing who they were, and they presuming that we knew, and even understanding the Irish accent again. Um, because obviously being Okay. rural. Yeah, I remember Rebecca, I had to do the Green Cert, and I had to go down to Curtin to do three weeks of the Green Cert, and that was I was home in the July, and I had to go down the September, and there were people from all over there. But there was one man from Kerry. I had to lip read to be able to understand. I'm not joking. Um, course, being a small community as well, you do have all of that, you know, just the local church. There's a local fundraising. There's you know, there's all of that, that, that that happens. And even though I didn't, it was quite a few years before I entered anything into a local show. But Kelly has a go at, you know, she goes to the local agricultural show. Um, she has to look to see what the competition is in terms of if she's she's thinking of entering some baking. And the story of the pavlova was true, by the way, um, having to go looking Oh, for eggs really? at. Um, so yeah, yeah, there were glimmers of of true experiences that there are. And then others were just imagination. Yes, because it is. It is essentially a romance at heart. there is a love triangle involved. There's two very eligible, eligible men who Kelly gets to know. Um, so we'll assume that part is not based on reality. No. So as you were coming home with a husband and Yeah. a three month old, three week old, three week old, and what made you decide to go down that route? You know, we'll say the romance aspect of it was that kind of something as you started writing these, kind of this was emerging, or again, was it always intended You know, Rebecca, I'm not sure where where that came from, to be honest. I think I just decided to have her as a single woman and as a single woman coming into a rural area. Uh, she would be very much seen as a laying hand. Now, I don't know, Claire, if you've ever heard that expression, but, um, I think laying here would be somebody, a woman who had had a has a good career. But if she had a career like teaching. I believe you're both teachers, aren't you? Yes. Yeah. would have the long holidays. So she's bringing in a good salary, but you would also have the long holidays to be able to help out on the farm. So she's a particularly good catch as far as a farmer is concerned. and I wanted Kelly to have the long holidays so that you would be available to help out on the farm, help her and help the neighbors, you know, have time off from work as well. Which is why I just why I gave her that career. Um, so but but yeah, the the romance such as decided. Well, you know, I want to throw her into the real farming, real farming community life. And to make it interesting, there has to be some romance going on Yeah. and some comedy to create some comedy. had an experience once where I was in work, and my grandmother was very much intent on marrying me off. She couldn't get over how I was a woman in her early 20s that was single, and she really, really wanted me to marry a farmer. Like had her heart set on it. And I didn't know why. I was like, Jesus, what? What is this about? But and she used to tell me about joining Margaret and about the garden club. She wanted me to have a farmer or a gardener, preferably a farmer, for some reason. So I remember I was in work one day and my phone rang and it was my nan and I was like, Jesus, this, this has to be important because, like, she would never ring me unless she was needing help of any kind. So I just excused myself and I went out and I answered the phone and I was like, are you alright then? And she said, um, I am just a can you talk? And I said, okay. And I said, are you okay? What do you need? You need me to do something. And she just said, right, okay, I'm reading the paper here now, and there is a young farmer in Cork looking for a romantic relationship. And I was like, you've wronged me in work. So tell me about, like, the personals in the newspaper. And she's like, I just think you'd get on great with the farmer. And sure, here I am now with with one sitting inside. And she was her dream has Very materialized. good. But yeah, there's the thing about teachers and farmers really isn't there. But I never knew that it was because we were so available to help out. For God's sake, that's a catch. I never thought about it that way either, actually, until right now. Yeah. But what was funny was when I was writing, um, would you marry a farmer? I discovered that lots of women wanted to marry a farmer. They saw it as a really wholesome way of life. And they saw farmers as being, uh, you know, the perfect mate. And during the book, I compare that to the 1950s and 60s, where farmers were not considered a good catch at all. But in this country garden at heart, I have Kelly been warned off marrying farmers. So she's got a friend who was brought up in a farm, and she was, Kelly's been told, don't touch a farmer with a barge pole because you know, you'll be out there all hours helping out and mucking out, and you won't see him, and you'll be on your own. And her mother as well, because she hated the farm, is also telling her, get out of that country before you end up married to a farmer, My you mother know? is still shocked that I ended up marrying a farmer like. It was kind of never a kind of on the cards. And then, you know, here I am. But, um, and that and she's really surprised that I get so stuck in as well. Like, I'm one of the ones now that I could go milking in the evening on my own if I had. I often do the evening milking from out there when he's if he's really busy because he does contracting as well. And like I was on career break for a year and I, I did the calves and stuff all that year and Mm. got really stuck in and really enjoyed did not expect did not expect to have this lifestyle by any means. So like there's a lot of what I was reading, like, Kelly, there's a lot of bits like in things that she says that I'm like, oh yeah, I can totally see where she's coming from. I can kind of see why people could be telling her to stay away as well, because, as you said, it's not always an easy life and there is a lot of certain points there. There's a lot of stress. But, um, Mm. as you said earlier, it's very therapeutic as well to be able to, I suppose, walk outside your own door and you're in your own fields. Um, and there is like at the moment our cows Yeah. are in the field next Mm mm. door. Like, that's, that's just a part of it at the moment. And it's lovely to see them going off there in the morning and coming down in the evening. Arduino as in, I'm at home when they're coming and going to milking and stuff, but it's it's lovely. I couldn't imagine being anywhere else. No, I would find it very hard to to live Mm mm. anywhere besides a farm. No. the macro aspect of the book, that's kind of. You got in touch with me about that, just to read over. I saw that and see how it was realistic. again, was that always something that was kind of intended to be in it Yeah. I was never in Macra. Um, I suppose I went to Dublin when I was 18, and then I went over to England when I was 21. Um, so I came back when I was just 33. And as you know, the cutoff age for mockery is 35, isn't it? because we had well, when we came home, I never joined. I was never in Macra. but I knew about it, uh, you know, in terms of the fundraising events that they have, the, the blue jeans, the Miss Macra, all of those kind of events, as well as the fact that, you know, a lot of marriages do come from Macra. Um, so I definitely wanted to include Macra within the book. I wanted Kelly to experience it, which is partly why I sent the book to you, Rebecca, just as a beta reader, just to see am I getting it right? I was actually our, um, blue jean country queen, and I think it was a 20, Who? 2013. Yeah. Very good. Yeah, yeah. Off up to to meet for a weekend. Yeah. Can you tell us about macro look like? So for someone like me that has lived in the city my entire life and someone mentions macro. I haven't a notion. Except that it's a farming group community, and I thought it was a youth community in the sense that I thought it was only for teenagers. But I've just, I don't know, it's up until you're in your mid 30s. So can you give us some information about what it is and what it actually involves? Yeah. Because I actually like. And I knew pretty much nothing about it before I joined. Um, I went to school with secondary school with Texted me out of the blue saying there was a club being set up in our locality if I wanted to come to a meeting. Now, I used to be quite involved in score at the time, which was kind of the cultural branch of the GAA. I used to do a lot of kind of the novelty acts and stuff like that. So I think I just assumed it was something along those lines, that it was some sort of kind of plays or drama or acting or something. So I went along to the meeting and as you know, a stereotypical thing, I was the only girl at the meeting and 10 or 11 lads, I'd roped in two of my male friends to go with me as well. Who would do score? Two, who kind of didn't know what micro was either. And because we were there on the night, we were signed up as members. Um, I became secretary and it is it's a rural youth organisation. Um, and it was a way it was a, I suppose, it was a social aspect to living in rural areas. And I suppose that kind of by its nature, that meant kind of farming. And so they used to organize different events, different competitions, fundraisers to give people living in rural areas the opportunity to come together with like minded people, um, to do different things, to learn new skills, um, to help their community, like community, would be a big element of it. So I went in knowing nothing about it and got really stuck in, in fairness, like the social aspect of it is fantastic. You'd be out every weekend, um, at something like parties or fundraisers or sports or whatever it was. And over my time in Macra, I was chair of secretary of our club. I was chair of our club. I was chair of our local area, which is was great. I was chair of Carr County Macra. I would have been involved in kind of like national bits to a degree. Um, so I got very stuck in and it genuinely was one of the best things I could have ever done, outside of the fact that I met my husband through a sport of our clubs, organised a social night out and we met at that. And here we are now many, many years later. it genuinely like for people who I suppose don't know what it is, um, is it is such a lifeline for some people like it it genuinely especially for people who that wouldn't get the opportunities, might be a bit quieter, um, might like to go out, but might want to be out drinking every weekend. You know, you might be able to you could go on debating, you could go public speaking. There's quizzes. There's a loads of different sports. Um, there's farming competitions obviously. Then as well, part of a stock judging. I entered stock judging one year and very quickly realised I had no idea how to judge one cow versus another cow. Um, so I promised this and clearly did not win anything in her sport. I can say I did it, So it's it's like Yeah. the social No. That's aspect interesting. of it. Yeah. And that's what that's I suppose that's what for for Kelly and your book learner. That's what it was. It was a Yeah. kind of get to know, get to know. People in the book are in her locality in the book will say. Yeah. And I assume that that proved to be a very useful tool for you then to, speed up certain connections and plots. it must have been a good way for you to, to get people moving, I suppose, in that sense, because otherwise she was just stuck in the firm, as you say, Rebecca. It's an important way to to socialise, particularly if you are extremely rural. But did she, as a character, do you think that it played a big role in her finding her people at home? It was. And it wasn't in that she. Because her aunt and uncle were away. Because he was in hospital. Um, she did feel quite isolated. And there's one stage where she's wondering, you know, Ireland of a thousand welcomes. Where are you? And you know, and because it's winter, she arrives in January. So there's snow, it's cold, etc. but she does find that some neighbors are very friendly now. Some are a bit too friendly. And it's like the Spanish Inquisition in terms of all their questions. But she does make friends both in school and through neighbors. But also mocha gives her, means to have a have a social life outside of that, you know, to go out to dances, etc. and meet people through that. And she goes to, like Rebecca mentioned, a stock judging competition. She ends up going to one of those, I wrote it in a diary format. So, you know, so part of the plot is about her relationships as well, her relationships with the men in her life, uh, with their neighbors, uh, with her aunt and uncle and, and with the, the growing friendships that that are being created. Um, I don't want to give too much away in terms of those relationships Yeah. No. That's that okay. she has, Yeah. again, I also wanted to include macro because I wanted to show how important it is to rural It's and and just actually the, I suppose the, the thing like I was in my early 20s I'd say when I joined I, yeah, I was, I was and the reason it kind of goes up to like the 30s, the mid 30s is because like there is a structure where you have like the clubs or, you know, you have proper clubs and like proper like committees on clubs and stuff. And I think it's to give the benefit of, you know, people who've been around for a small bit to help, um, to help run clubs and to help new members and younger members, Well, actually, I like the 35 thing is actually just that you can't hold a position in the club anymore. Like you have to be younger than that. I think you could still be a member, actually up to 40. Um, just I think all that happened me was I had my first child, I did my last national competition when I was pregnant with my oldest, who is eight, and he was obviously a very good luck charm because we won a national title that night, um, in public speaking. And that was the last thing I ever did in my career. But just by dint of the fact that that I'd had a child and at that point I was like, I'm, I'm kind of gone beyond the age now. There's people who are 17 and I'm here having a baby, you know what I mean? It's we were kind of at different life stages, I suppose, but I like I'm very thankful for for everything it gave me and the opportunities it gave me. I literally would not be where I am today, only for us. Like I wouldn't have met. I wouldn't have met my husband otherwise. Isn't that nice? You're really kind of tying into the hole, you know, with setting it in a rural, um, setting and having macaroon, like, you know, romantic island, how people romanticize what it is like. What was that movie that came out there recently with Lindsay Lohan in it, The Wish or something, was it? And coming to Ireland and loving Ireland and, um, there was another movie as well where they. Was it a leap year movie or something where Amy Adams Oh, yeah. came to Ireland as well? And they really romanticize the rural settings in Ireland and how lovely it is. And so you'd fall in love with a nice Irish boy and stuff like that. So there's a market there, all right. Like. is there I presume there is a book to in on the way. Lorena is there. Yeah. Yeah. Um. And have you started writing it already? Yeah. I've written about 20,000 words. Um, I'm hoping to have a good first draft done by the time calving starts, which would be towards the end of January. Um. Yeah. Um, I've set this book in 2017, and part of the reason I did that was because it's also showing what's happening in terms of dairy farming in Ireland. Um, in 2015, the quotas finished and up till then, dairy farmers have found it very difficult to expand or other farmers find it very difficult to get into dairy farming. And from 2015 that was possible. I really brought about a change in agriculture in Ireland. And my plan is to write 4 or 5 novels over the course of Kelly's first ten years in Ireland, maybe bring it up to okay, it'll have changes in her life, but will also reflect the changes that have happened in in Farming Ireland because we've had 2022 when, for example, when the price of inputs really went up because of the Ukrainian war. Um, but the milk price also went up. So that was actually a really good year for farmers. 2023 was a tough year. Um, because prices went back down, inputs were still high and the weather wasn't great. And 2024 has been a difficult year or two in terms of weather. So, you know, the second novel that I'm writing at the moment is it's set in 2018, and I don't know if you can remember back to 2018, but we had Storm Emma and we had the beast from the East, and then we had a heatwave during the summer. So that's that's going to affect, um, farming life. And, and so by so doing it's going to affect what Kelly is doing as well. you've mentioned 4 or 5 books. Do you already kind of know where you want her life to finish up, you know, and where Kelly and her family or her partner or whatever, like where they will be at, or is this your figuring that out as you're racing? I kind of know the end. Yeah I know the main plot points. But things could always change as I'm writing. You know I have outlined book two and it's very detailed. But things could change as I'm writing it, and I have to sort of take into consideration, you know, I don't want to write Covid novels, but obviously I'm going to include it, so I'm going to have to be quite choosy, you know, because I want her to be isolated for a little while. But I don't want a whole year of Covid, you know, if you know what I mean. It's a really interesting way of documenting the landscape of Irish farming, isn't it? I suppose one of the things that, you know, I'm not saying I'm a Jane Austen or anything, but say, for example, Jane Austen's novels and people look at them as the commentary that were about that period. But how when we look at it, we think, oh, she's left out bits. But that's because it was so obvious to her readers at the time. But I suppose so many people don't know about dairy farming unless they are an actual dairy farmer. So I sort of want to document the not necessarily the difficulties, but certainly the challenges that are there for dairy farmers and the ups and downs and how the cycles change so quickly. I mean, the changes are happening on an annual basis at the moment in terms of how, you know, the fortunes are up and then they are down. So you talk about making a five year plan. It's nearly impossible. And, you know, in terms of doing cash flows and budgets and all of that kind of thing, you know, it's not easy. And I want my books to reflect that as well as be your romantic comedy. the social history aspect of it is, great you're essentially just showing the reality of life. Like people, like yourself. Oh. Like myself. younger versions of ourselves, maybe. But just just knowing what it is, Yeah. it is like. Lorena, you are obviously a prolific writer. You enjoy writing. We assume that you are a good reader, too. So are there any books that stand out for you in the last, like, 12 months as books that you think that people should pick up and read? Oh, goodness. Um, I don't know if you're. Well, I'm sure you do remember particularly Rebecca. Well, you know, but this was a really long winter. This spring, it was really wet and really cold. And the livestock had to stay in. And audiobooks are what got me through because it seemed like it was a Groundhog Day of having to scrape cubicles, lime cubicles, feed cattle, you know, it just seemed to go on for months, and it was audiobooks that got me through particularly. I love crime books, and I've read all of the Robert Galbraith series, The Strike and Ellicott. And I actually got them on audio again, and I listened to all seven books throughout March and April. Um, and I love those books, not just because there's a good crime going on, but I love the slow burn of the will. They are. Won't they get together? Um, so, I mean, they're all quite big tomes, but I have to absolutely love them as as a crime novel that have that little bit of romance as well. one of my standout books that I, if people ask me what's my favorite historical fiction is a book called Burial Rites by Hannah Kent. And I keep going back to it, and I've read it twice, and I actually listened to it again quite a grim book, but it's set in 1829, in Iceland, of a woman who was charged with murder, and she's waiting for her trial or waiting for the execution. And the reason I loved it so much was because as you get to know her character better, particularly from the second half of the book, you're just rooting for her, for her survival on every single page. Um, and if somebody is looking, I love historical fiction, not romantic historical fiction with happily ever after, but I love a grim historical fiction. I'm not sure why when I'm writing romantic comedy, but that's that's the way I am. Burial rites is one of the best historical fiction novels I've ever read. Um. Okay, that sounds brilliant. I've seen it, but I haven't read it and I do. I actually like the grim historical fiction as well. There's something very human about us, because Mhm. life isn't all happily ever afters, to be fair. And. And what about as a child? So you you studied Oh English? Did you yeah. say that earlier? Yeah. So, like, what did you read as a child? Are there any authors that you gravitated towards or what's your first memory of reading? Or could you tell us about how reading plays a big part in your life? Oh yeah. I was an avid reader but again for many years it was the whole, you know Blyton you know it went noughties seven Famous Five, you know onto the Circus of adventure and all of those and also the Malory Towers and the Chalet School and all of those. And then when I was a teenager, I suppose I went to boarding school, and maybe it was because I was influenced by my peers, but there wasn't necessarily that much time to read as well. Um, and I remember going through a mills and boon phase, um, definitely when I was about 14 or 15 and was reading The Mills and Boon and all the rest, that that was definitely a phase. Um, and then of course, when you go to university, you know, you're reading the classics and you're reading, you know, I remember one of the first novels we read was Jeanette Winterson Written on the Body, which just blew me away. Um, so but I read I read a I've always read a mixture of genres, like I would read a lot of crime, I read a lot of, um, historical fiction, but I also like. Uh, comedy. I loved the Ashling books, for example, and other authors I would have read were like Lucy Mangan and Alexandra Posher and Matt and Taylor. Um, um, but I would also read a lot of farming biographies, our farming history books, you know, like Irish Farming Life by Mervyn Watson and Jonathan Bell. They've written quite a lot of historical books about farming, and I would read them like, as those were also their novels. Um, as I said, I've just started the Masters in Regional history, and we've been told and we won't have time to read another novel until next summer. So it's going We to be got. interesting. Yeah. Thumbs down Boom. to that. I know, I know, like in terms of, you know, I've joined Story Graph partly just to keep an eye on how many books I'm reading. And because my memory's gone so bad, at least I can look back and see what books I've read. And I think I'm on number 64 this year, but I've noticed that a lot more of them are audiobooks now than they used to be. Because I just don't have the energy to read late into the evening like I used to. You know those days when our nights when you could go to bed at a book and it didn't matter if you had to get up early in the morning, you would just keep reading and reading. Well, no, I can't do Yeah. this anymore. You know, the Kindle falls down on my face and that kind of thing, you know. Yeah, I'm definitely finding that as well. as as you said, when you're unblinking, after the cows are walking out to, like, put up fences in the paddock or whatever, like an audiobook is, is perfect. Like, you wouldn't you wouldn't be able to read a book otherwise, you know, if it wasn't an audio. So I, I'm very much the same audio. Probably 80% of what I, what I read these days. And is there? Is there any other books, like if there was one book that you could tell everyone to read, would it be the Hannah Kent one, or would there be something else? Um, if somebody was to ask me for a recommendation I think I would first ask them do you like, do you like happy happy endings. And if they said no then I would say Burial Rites by Hannah Kent or even a book like Harvesting by Lisa Harding. I don't know if you've read that has been made into a film, and it's about the trafficking of young girls and it's very grim. Um, but, you know, not novels like that which are about real life, whether, you know, they're not they're not necessarily an accurate representation of what's happening. But, um, you know, it is fictional, but it is based on what could happen or could have happened. Um, you know, I do enjoy novels like that. But if somebody told me that they like a happy ever after. Oh, I think I'd have to recommend my novel, wouldn't I? So Of there course, you go. Yeah. of course. So spoiler alert Millie does have a happily ever after. But with who? Okay. Or is it on her own? Is it on her own? Yeah. Becky the ghost, Becky the Yeah. ghost and I Kelly see the ghost. live happily ever after. would be your favorite book of, like? We'll say new release 2024. I am really looking forward to reading Dawn and Ryan's book, Spinning Heart. The Spinning Heart when I read it. I can't remember what year it came out. That was my favourite book for many that year and for a couple of years. I absolutely loved it and I want to reread it now before I read his new book. Um, but it's sitting there on a shelf and I'm really looking forward to reading it. love when there's a book that you just cannot wait to to get your hands on and just snuggle down and read it and have that experience. Because when you are finding what I'm finding is the majority of my reading as well is with audiobooks at the moment. So getting that time to sit down and read, it's like a pure novelty for someone that reads so many books. It's a novelty to get to sit down and physically curl up with the book now. But what's interesting, Claire, is I didn't even think of getting his new book as an audiobook. You know, I want to get the physical paperback and sit down in an armchair and just savor the words. Yeah. You know, audiobooks tend to be for books that I've either read before, and I want to revisit them, and I know I don't have time to read them again, or it's a book that I'm thinking, yeah, I'd like to read that, but if it's a book that's really special, then I am buying it as the paperback and I am reading it. That's very true. interesting though. I actually hadn't thought about that either. All of his books I have bought physical copies of, Oh! probably for the same reason. On some subconscious level, I have not listened to any of his books, so that's funny. Yeah. No, actually I hadn't thought of that as well. I have that here too. It's on my little book trolley next to me. It's it's of the next books I will read. I bought him a sequel of a book that I really enjoyed recently, and I'm not getting to read it. I'm three chapters into it in the last week, and it's killing me because I'm so tired when I go to bed. And even I brought it to my hairdresser's this evening, and sure, everyone was chatting, so I felt kind of rude for reading or whatever. And I'm like, when? When am I going to sit down and read it? But I don't want to listen to it. I just want that immersive experience of turning the pages and coming up with it all yourself and the accents and everything. It's a yeah. It's hard to find the time, but it's it's a really lovely experience to get to do it. would you feel about a quickfire round? Terrifying. you Yeah. can give, Brave. like, full answers, or you can just state whichever one you would pick and then move on quickly. You don't need to explain yourself if you don't Okay. want to. Okay. So your first one physical book or e-book. Oh. Physical campuses. Yeah. Um, early morning reading or late night reading? Late nights. And if I had the energy to read till 2 a.m., I would. Mhm. Yeah I know. Um, first person or third person point of view. First person depending. It depends on the novel but. And the genre. But I do like a first person. Yeah. So. So you feel like your experiencing the story along with them. That's true. Actually I never really thought of that. Um bookmark or dog here. Ow! Dog ear. Yeah. I like when a book is is dog eared, and it shows that it has been read many times. I don't use bookmarks. Hardly to. Okay. Annotate books or keep them pristine. Annotate. Yeah. Um, I don't keep my. You know, again, for me, a favorite book should have one that has a bent spine and it has. The pages are starting to yellow. And yeah, it's been It's annotated. been loved. It's definitely yeah, it's been loved. It's it's been through the wars just as I have. Yeah. Yeah. And audiobooks are podcasts. Oh, audiobooks. Yeah I do listen to a lot of podcasts, but um, but sometimes. Yeah, I do listen to audiobooks more than I listen to podcasts. Yeah. That's fair enough. Um, a cliffhanger ending or neatly wrapped up? Oh, cliffhanger. uh, depends on the novel again, but I. Yeah, I like an an ending where I can go, oh, wow. What we did that go. And I can decide in a way. Yeah. Yeah. And I like the challenge of it. And, and the thing of. Oh my goodness, I need to look back. I don't like a sudden ending where it feels rushed and you're kind of left thinking, oh, you know what happened there? Um, but I do quite like an ending that I have to think about. Okay. Okay. Villains or heroes? Oh, that's difficult one. Oh, heroes. Okay. Yeah, it has to be heroes. Classic literature or contemporary fiction? Oh, both. Yeah. It depends what mood I'm in. Okay. Um. And your last one then is from now on, only write fiction or only write nonfiction. Only write fiction. I've done the nonfiction. Got the t shirt and that. Yeah, yeah. Fair enough. thank you so much for coming on, Laura. Thank you so much. Thank you. Ladies. Yeah, it was lovely. Thank you.